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Safer Tomorrow Podcast
The Safer Tomorrow Podcast aims to reduce crime and violence today by raising awareness about solutions while providing practical tips, strategies and stories that inspire and empower change makers and peace seekers (regular citizens) to effect change.
As someone who has conducted research in this area, Dr. Jo is convicted about civil society's role in the crime problem and our responsibility to be part of the solution. Change is possible, and so Safer Tomorrow provides actionable and doable steps, everyone can participate in to create a safer, more compassionate, and equitable world.
When a crime is committed, trust is broken, the person who committed the crime has to prove themselves to earn trust.
But it's not just up to them. We must rethink the way we categorize people who make poor decisions and everything we think we know about them, their story, and their future. We must rebuild broken possibilities and connections and provide new potential. And we must reach out to become the community that helps others walk a healed path.
It may push us out of our comfort zones, but it's within our capacity.
Let's take action and create positive change together.
Safer Tomorrow Podcast
The Prison-to-College Project in Jamaica | Shanell Bailey | Safer Tomorrow Podcast
Discover a pathway of redemption and education that defies the odds with Shanell Bailey, our guest who brings a wealth of knowledge from forensic psychology and her experiences in South Africa. Together, we uncover the inner workings of the Prison to College Pipeline initiative, a program that is reshaping the lives of those behind bars. From the rigorous eligibility criteria to the application process, Shanell guides us through how this initiative fosters inclusivity and rehabilitation by offering university courses, igniting hope for a future beyond incarceration.
Imagine stepping out of a cell and into a classroom, where the bonds of community and academia entwine to support reentry into society. That's the heartbeat of the Prison College Pipeline, which we delve into, celebrating the triumphs of individuals who seized these educational lifelines and turned their lives around. Yet, the journey is not without its hurdles – we discuss the stark realities that returning citizens face, from housing challenges to the weight of societal expectations, and how vital sustained community support systems are in ensuring that the journey from education to employment is one of lasting success.
Venture with us from the U.S. borders to Jamaica, where initiatives like the UWI Mona Prison Project are breaking new ground despite stark financial and educational contrasts. We examine the ethics of providing higher education in prison settings, emphasizing education as a fundamental human right. Moreover, we spotlight the critical roles that organizations and businesses play in supporting reentry, and how universities can tailor their programs to bridge the gap from incarceration to integration into society. For those intrigued by the power of education to transform lives and rebuild futures, this conversation is both a revelation and a clarion call to action.
Can incarcerated persons graduate from tertiary institutions? How is it fair that they can participate in higher education programs during incarceration? Well, today we're going to speak more about that with Chanel Bailey, who will be talking about the prison to college pipeline. Join us, join us.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Safer Tomorrow podcast, your resource for strategies from around the world to reduce crime and violence and to create a more peaceful society. Criminal justice researcher and a community social work educator, and I am very passionate about finding strategies and resources to reduce crime and violence in my country, jamaica, and hopefully around the world. Today we have Miss Chanel Bailey, and I'm really excited to have her. We've had some conversations before and I think she is going to share an initiative that would be really interesting and that is very important in terms of facilitating reintegration for formerly incarcerated citizens. But before we go into that, I'm just going to ask Miss Bailey just to tell us a little bit about herself, who she is, what work she has been doing, and then we'll find out a little bit more as well about what sparked her interest in this field.
Speaker 2:Hi Dr Jobe, Thank you for having me. Congratulations again on your podcast. This is really great, this is awesome, so I'm Chanel.
Speaker 2:So I have a bachelor's degree in forensic psychology from John Jay College of Criminal Justice. So I'm like a kind of a baby in this world and this research I'm entering into becoming a specialist in prison reentry and reintegration. So I'm also the project manager for the Uemona Prison Project currently and over the years since graduating and getting my degree I've been working in the re-entry and reintegration realm. That's solely what I've been doing since college and after college been several years now since then nice, okay so, but what got you interested in this field?
Speaker 1:you're a young lady, you know, right, and I mean I'm also young, but but you know just what got you into this field of study.
Speaker 2:So I went to university in New York. So I was born in Jamaica, born in well, not raised in Jamaica, born in Jamaica, raised in New York City. I went to John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York and again my major was forensic psychology. So throughout college I did a lot of social justice work, criminal justice work, research and getting into vulnerable and marginalized communities. So my senior year at John Jay I took a lot of classes and one of them was a study abroad to South Africa.
Speaker 2:So the semester before I was able to meet the commissioner of probation and parole in New York City. He came to one of our classes and that kind of sparked the interest around corrections, prison reentry, reintegration, all that stuff. So I found a study abroad that was going to South Africa with Dr Baz Dreisinger, and Dr Dreisinger is the founder of the Prisoner College Pipeline Program in New York at my alma mater in John Jay. So through that study abroad, meeting with Dr Dreisinger, being able to go to the prisons in South Africa sitting down with incarcerated men and women there, talking with them, that kind of sparked my interest. So after that I came to Jamaica the same year to talk more about this initiative and then I just started working in the field. That's really snowballed into all of this. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:You really got immersed into the field very early. So even though you're saying, oh, I'm new to this, you actually have a good amount of experience. So what exactly is the Prison to College Pipeline?
Speaker 2:So the Prison to College Pipeline program is kind of it plays off of the school to prison pipeline, which is kind of about the over-policing in urban communities, in schools that lead to eventually the incarceration of students and so on and so forth, which is like a pipeline. It funnels kids from schools into the prison. The prison to college pipeline is almost like a correction of that in some way. Like a correction of that in some way, um, and what it is is incarcerated people at Otisville correctional facility get access to university courses and gain credits and then, once they're released, they're able to continue their education at one of the universities under the city university of New York.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So how do persons become involved in the program generally?
Speaker 2:So generally, what happens is so the program is housed at Owensville Correctional Facility, and so there are three kind of qualifications that students would have to meet. So they would have to have a high school diploma and or a GED. Well, or a GED, which is now the high school equivalency. So if you didn't finish high school, you take an exam and you have the high school equivalency. You would have to be within five years of release and you also have to pass the math and English portion of the CUNY assessment. There's an assessment that you have to do in order to get into the university. They also do that, and if they have all of those things, they then go through the admissions process. They do interviews and they answer a couple of questions and go through that process. That's how they get involved. So once they meet those criterias and they go through that regular CUNY process, they can then be admitted after a rigorous, you know, admissions cycle to get into the program.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So it's not an easy slide. Then.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:Anybody that can be part of this program they have to really meet some particular requirements. So, in terms of the profile of persons who tend to join, apart from what you described, are there persons who have committed particular types of crimes, so maybe less violent or less serious crimes or more violent and more serious crimes.
Speaker 2:Everyone, Any and everyone can apply. If you're incarcerated at Otisville Correctional Facility, you have a high school diploma or a GED or high school equivalency and you meet all the other qualifications, you can apply to the program. No matter what the criminal background is, what you were convicted of, you can still apply to the program.
Speaker 1:Okay, awesome. Thank you so much. So what are some of the degree programs that persons have been able to complete as a result of this particular program?
Speaker 2:Oh, several things. So whatever is offered under the CUNY school that they are released into. So there are several different kind of college and prison programs in the US and abroad. The Prison to College Pipeline is a particular program where it's like an inside out program so students don't complete their degree inside while they're incarcerated through the prison to college pipeline. The purpose of the program is so that students will leave the facility and it works more like reintegration through education.
Speaker 2:So they use the program in order to funnel the kids well, the students, sorry, the students into university. So then they have access to resources into university. So then they have access to resources, community psychosocial support and all those things. So how it generally works is, once they start, they do a lot of the general education requirements while they're inside the facility, so they'll do math, english, other liberal arts stuff like that, other liberal arts classes, and that builds into credits, and then those credits they can use. Once they're released they get admissions into any one of the CUNY schools. So whether that's John Jay College, york College, whatever school falls under CUNY and then they can pursue whatever degree is offered at that university.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it's somewhat of a transitional program then yes, okay, okay very great, very good um. And so, in terms of the evaluation, is there an evaluation that occurs during incarceration um and then post incarceration?
Speaker 2:uh, what do you mean in reference to re-entry?
Speaker 1:no, in terms of the program itself re-entry.
Speaker 2:No, in terms of the program itself, I'm not sure exactly so in terms of their assessments so they do assessments during incarceration, correct? So there is like whatever assessment to get into the university. So you mean like in order to determine whether or not this program is successful and if it's effective in the way that we want it to be effective, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, thank you. All right, so, in terms of the types of employment jobs persons have been able to acquire through this program or after this program, what are some of those after?
Speaker 2:this program. What are some of those? So varying, different type of degrees not degrees jobs and job prospects. So the point of the program essentially is so that people are able to reintegrate and get back to the normal of life that you're an average citizen, so whatever the average citizen can do, you can also do as well. So you'll see varying different options. People might go into construction. Someone might go into getting their master's and graduate degrees and becoming professors all sorts of anything in between that as well.
Speaker 2:So we have one student so I mentioned earlier, I came to Jamaica in 2018 to kind of advocate for the prison and college pipeline here We'll talk about that later and I came with the first graduate of the program, who's Devon Simmons. Devon spent several years while he was incarcerated and Devon is now the program director at Columbia Law School the program director at Columbia Law School. So he's doing a paralegal pathways program that he helped develop and he graduated summa cum laude at John Jay and all of those wonderful things. So he's an exceptional, exceptional person and so there's varying degrees of different types of jobs that students have been able to acquire after the program okay, so um, last week on the program, I mean locally what we've heard about are some of the challenges that persons have in obtaining employment.
Speaker 1:Yes, for I mean for those abroad in the cuny programs. Have they encountered any of those challenges after completing their degrees of Of?
Speaker 2:course, of course. So the program started before the ban the box movement in the US. So there was a situation where you know, once you're applying for jobs you would have to click off whether or not you've been arrested or convicted of criminal convictions and so all the stigma that comes with being incarcerated and all those things. Of course students are affected by that right with being incarcerated and all those things. Of course students are affected by that right. And so some of the solutions around that we see is that a lot of formerly incarcerated people have started their own businesses, they go into entrepreneurship, they have started a lot of the reentry, reintegration programs in New York and then they thus hire formerly incarcerated people. So New York and the US is kind of a bit more advanced and we're moving towards more acceptance and integration of incarcerated people. So of course students have had difficulties in the beginning around employment and their histories and I think throughout the years it has gotten a lot better.
Speaker 1:Okay, so apart from the program itself, kind of helping persons to acquire education how do you believe this program supports persons leaving a life of crime as well as actually reintegrating into society? Could you unpack that picture for us a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. So I think what's really good about the Prison and College Pipeline Program, what's really good about the Prison to College Pipeline Program separate from other college and prison programs is the emphasis on reintegration and reentry support for students. So we understand that academics and education is important and the work that we do inside the prison is extremely important. But sometimes that work that we do in the prison doesn't always translate to once they're released and in the community. So the most beneficial thing about this program and a lot of other programs throughout the years that have developed is the sense of community.
Speaker 2:So what I've seen that programs that are successful and have high success rates, with students that are able to gain employment and not, just, like the average employment, you know, become professors and do all sorts of things is the community that's built in the programs and the access to resources and the professors and all of those things which can sometimes only be achieved through in-person classes at the facilities, resources and also planning for reentry, helping them to think about what life is going to be like once they're released, you know, acknowledging that, you know, even though they're in the prisons and you know the professors come inside and they are people and regular, normal, average people. That conviction and that stigma that comes from it not everyone is what might perceive them that way, and so this program, the Prison College Pipeline Program, does a really good job. I think of working on the inside and the outside approaches, and the building of that community and those support systems is what helps them to be successful when they're out.
Speaker 1:So I mean, as I speak to a number of persons on this podcast, definitely one of the things I'm hearing come out is the importance of community and social ties and just how um that really undergirds all the processes of reintegration. So, um, from what you're saying, even though education is a clear opportunity and a clear pathway out of um crime and it also helps them to re-enter into society, it's not just the education but it is that kind of community support and the support systems that you are seeing that will help to facilitate a sustained approach, a sustained experience, a sustained continuation, therefore, in leaving this life of crime and becoming a part of society. And you know, it's interesting, do they retain some of the relationships? So I assume, some of the, well, some of the interactions and the relationships that they would have built within the facility with the professors. Well, they would continue it once. They continue it at CUNY, right, what?
Speaker 1:are their other relationships through this program that they continue post the facility after they've left.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely, definitely. I can speak because I have the most experience with Prison to College Pipeline, specifically because I went to John Jay in my connection with Dr Dreisinger, and so what I will say is that Dr Dreisinger herself maintains a lot of communication with the students, right? So that is one thing. I think that is really, really important. Being someone who founded the program, she's very hands-on. They're like her family, they are exactly family. So Devon Simmons I don't know, maybe I don't Devon Simmons that I mentioned, devon is family, right, so Devon is family. His kids is, know, maybe I don't Devon Simmons that I mentioned, devon is family, right, so Devon is family, his kids is family, his wife is family, and so they maintain all of those relationships. We'll have barbecues, we'll go out on trips together, weddings happen, people go to weddings and all of those things. So the sense of community and support is really important in having success stories over time and, like you said, sustainability, order to sustain that long term?
Speaker 1:yes, are there any apart from the one you've mentioned so far? Are there any success stories of note that you know you would like to share with us?
Speaker 2:outside of Devon. Oh my gosh, so that the question's a little bit late. There's two students, right, that their names are escaping me currently. Yeah, two students that their names are escaping me currently. They're doing well as well. There are several students, but I just can't. Right now, on the top of my head, devon is. I have the best experience with Devon off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:Okay, no problem, no problem. But I really am asking in terms of their experience, not necessarily their names, in terms of what their experience was like going through this program and completing it oh yeah, definitely it's very similar to to that of devon.
Speaker 2:so students who have gone on to maybe be program directors and other like the pd green project or working on, you know, the documentary incarceration nations with dr dreisinger it's very similar. It's not like Devon is an outlier. Everyone has similar stories with interactions with Dr Dreisinger, other professors, even some of the mentors and learning exchange students. So a part of the Prison to College Pipeline program is that traditional CUNY students go into the prison once a month to learn alongside the guys. So once they're outside in the prison they're able to connect with them on a regular basis and build those connections. So it's not just Devon but every other student as well.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it sounds like it has a high success rate and I'm hearing some of the reasons why again, that kind of community and building the bridges during incarceration so that once they have left, those relationships are maintained and they can continue and facilitate other opportunities for them post-prison. So, in terms of some of those who may not have been as successful, do you know why? What may have led to some of the challenges they would have experienced failing to complete the program?
Speaker 2:Right. So life, life sometimes. So it sounds like very broad and vague, but sometimes they're not best prepared for the realities of life and struggles that might come with that. So education might be the last thing on the list compared to housing, you know, employment, housing employment. People might come out and have families and children that they have to support and so they might get lost in all of the struggles of the day-to-day activities of life. So what I have seen is that people who have maintained connections and communication with the program and other people who participate in the program generally do very well. Once they're released right, they're able to maintain those community connections and ties and they'll finish their degree. Some people will come out and it's not a lot. A few people will come out and maybe they have had really strenuous connections with, you know, gang activity or crime before and it's kind of hard to completely break away once you're released Right, going back into communities that are still riddled with violence and all of those things.
Speaker 1:So the day to day of life kind of becomes a stressor and education is not at the forefront of some people, where it's survival and other things and I think what's important for us to remember, as you say, that is that that's the same thing for us, you know, for those who have never been in a facility. Sometimes the reason why we don't complete our degrees or meet some of our goals is really because life happens, you know, and you know, we also have challenges in trying to manage the stresses and manage the balance.
Speaker 1:The different roles that we're in as well, and so it's important for us, I think, just to remember that it's no different you know, it doesn't make them extraordinary in this situation. So, moving now to the more local space you know, I would love to hear about the Jamaican experience, a pilot project for the prison to college pipeline program here.
Speaker 2:Yes, so we just actually wrapped up the UEM on a prison project which is a prison, a college pipeline initiative here in Jamaica. We launched it in February of this year and then we wrapped up at the end of July, right, and we had our graduation ceremony. It was phenomenal. Hopefully soon you'll be seeing the valedictorian speech. He did an amazing job.
Speaker 2:So the Prison to College Pipeline Program here in Jamaica, which is now dubbed as the Uemona Prison Project, started several years ago while I was an undergraduate at John Jay College and I know you know this very well, so before I even knew anything about it. For years it was under development and working on by Dr Sonia Stanley Naya at the Institute of Caribbean Studies and Dr Dreisinger. So they came together and was really trying to push this initiative here and got to a decent place. But, like many things, funding is an issue, right. So over the years, I came here in 2021 as a Fulbright scholar doing Fulbright research and towards the end of my Fulbright, we got an opportunity to apply for a capacity building grant through Bard Prison Initiative, which is one of the largest prison programs in the US, and we were able to start a pilot US and we were able to start a pilot.
Speaker 2:So the initial idea for the UEMona prison project was to be something very similar to that of the Prison to College Pipeline in New York, where students would be able to gain credits inside one of the institutions and then they will be funneled like a pipeline into the University of West Indies Mona Campus. Here, through varying stages of development and all those stuff, we got our program off the ground and we were able to offer 10 students yay, we were able to offer 10 students a certificate in entertainment business through the department, the Institute of Caribbean Studies at UE Mona, and it went extremely well. I think I wasn't really shocked by the performance of the students. It's something that they wanted and they've been wanting for years, and so they were committed to getting the work done and they were definitely appreciative of the opportunity, and I know that the professors who went inside the institution really, really valued the experience as well.
Speaker 1:What would you say is one of the highlights of the program while you were implementing it?
Speaker 2:Oh man, oh man. I think getting it started was one of the highlights. The first class we had was like oh my gosh, it's happening. That was definitely a highlight. I think I'm still off of the graduation and there's one student that at the beginning he was dubbed the spokesperson for the program. He would come in, highly intelligent, speaks really well, and so even when he didn't want to speak, everyone's pushing him out front to speak and he performed the best in the class and he had a speech, a valedictorian speech, that was really profound and it moved a lot of people in the room. So that was really a highlight to see that moment. Have them have that moment.
Speaker 1:Well, let me say congratulations. I know you worked very hard on this and sometimes this work kind of goes on the radar Not everybody knows, but I want to say congratulations for your hard work and this is very important work um, and of course, you are a pioneer, you know as you are carrying this project here in jamaica.
Speaker 1:So I mean, what were some of the challenges, though, you encountered? I figure, I mean, this is a pilot project, so in every project there must be some kind of challenge, um, and so, for those who may be listening and, you know, figuring out how they may want to implement it sometime in the future, what are some of the challenges, um, you encountered, and how were you able to, if at all, to kind of circumvent them and overcome them all?
Speaker 2:right. So there there are a bit of challenges, right. So jamaica is not the us S right. What does that mean? And the US is not Jamaica in all different ways, which also means that certain opportunities around education and free education is not available in Jamaica like it is in the US.
Speaker 2:So with the Prisma College Pipeline in New York, that is able to happen, and able to happen easily, because we have financial aid for students. Right, if you make under a certain amount, most of the time all of your tuition is covered by the government. Right, you can pay into it, and while you're incarcerated you're not making any income. So most of those students' tuitions are fully covered under our financial aid programs and loans and all of those things, but also just financial aid that people don't have to pay back. That's not the reality here in Jamaica, and so that was one of the biggest hurdles is that when you're offering a university in prison program, you have to think about the finances and how we're able to fund all these students while they're incarcerated at a university like the University of the West Indies, which is expensive, or, you know, it's the Ivy League of the Caribbean, right, and so that that was a challenge. So, with the grant, we were able to kind of figure out OK, what can we offer to make sure that the students get the best experience and also are not cheated out of an education and a quality education from the University of the West Indies and I think we were able to do that successfully with a certificate program and for them to get the best value for our pilot.
Speaker 2:Another challenge that we had was finding students to participate in the program, so when the Prison to College Pipeline Initiative was first introduced, there was no other university in prison program in the Caribbean well, at least in this region doing something like that right.
Speaker 2:Since then, two initiatives have started, one here in Jamaica, so there's MLU with UCC, the Senate for Jamaica and Department of Correctional Services, and they started off in, I believe, 2021-2022, offering associates degrees in business administration to students around five students and they've expanded to offering bachelor's degrees, all online programs. There's also a program in Cayman Islands that's offering certificates, online degrees, through the UWE Open Campus and Her Majesty's Cayman Islands Prison Service. What that means for Jamaica, though, is that, like Jamaica, is not really different in the sense where, you'll see, in incarcerated settings, there are a higher number of people who don't necessarily have the qualifications for university, and so that is a difficulty, especially with the number of other programs, which is not really a bad thing. It's a good thing, but we don't want to have the same students being able to participate in one program. We wanna make sure that everyone is able to have access to quality higher education, so that was um a difficulty, but we were able to work around that through um mature entry requirements and also allowing other students to to help with with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the program. Yeah, yeah, and I think what you are talking about in terms of having more players in the space and it not being a competition but actually complimentary and important is just knowing that not everybody has the same goals. You know, each university, each program is not going to be able to offer the same thing Right. So when you have a diverse, when you have diverse options, it gives the participants options that would be more in line with their goals and therefore more likely to be utilized post um, post prison, after leaving the facilities. So I think it actually is a good thing.
Speaker 1:But I understand the the challenge that you would face um, you know, for participants, for your program, but I'm happy that you were able to find a way around it and truly I think that as we continue and as you continue, you will be able to see more and more persons who will be able to be engaged in the program. So I'm going to ask you a question now that I think is probably on some person's mind. Now you commit a crime and you are incarcerated. Why should you have access to higher education? There are persons out here in society outside, that can't afford it. Um, they're unable to go. But now this person, or these persons who have committed a crime are now not just being able to go, but are being paid.
Speaker 1:Their tuitions are being covered, right. How is that fair?
Speaker 2:Right, that is a question.
Speaker 2:I think that that is the biggest question that we've had around this project since its inception, and I think that everyone should have access to education and higher education.
Speaker 2:I think that we have to work and the government has to work to try to figure out how we can have everyone have a quality education and an affordable education here in Jamaica and all over the world. I think that it's important not to exclude anyone from that, so it's not necessarily about them having a privilege or an opportunity, but them not to exclude anyone from that. So it's not necessarily about them having a privilege or an opportunity, but them not being excluded from something. That is a human right. And so if we have this opportunity to provide them with something that they should be able to do because they're people, and just because you've done something wrong doesn't mean that you should be thrown away and not given opportunities for the rest of your life, and I think it's more about that making sure that no one is excluded from having an education, an equality education and if we can work to also include the rest of the community in some of the initiatives, then we'll work to do that as well.
Speaker 1:I like that answer because what it speaks about is expansion, you know. So it means that, okay, it doesn't mean that those, it means that the persons who are unable to within society should also be afforded higher education, and it's not just that they shouldn't be. So I really, looking beyond the well being of the clients and the participants themselves, if we are looking to, you know, to stem the state of violence and crime that we have in the nation, people need to have opportunities and people need to be able to have opportunities that will provide for their needs, you know. And so higher education does provide that platform.
Speaker 1:It does help that for them right to get um better jobs. So throughout this process for you, from you started, from you were introduced right up until you know this pilot project that you were able to implement has there anything that has been truly eye-opening for you that you didn't really think about before, that you were surprised by?
Speaker 2:I don't want to say I wasn't surprised by much. I think what I will say is that the general community is more open to this than we think they are Right. So at the inception of it, I think hearing the few who have an issue with providing higher education to people who are incarcerated kind of could have what is the word I'm looking for, anyways could have clouded some judgment around the program. But when you talk to everyday people I take Uber a lot, I don't drive, so I'll talk to Uber drivers, I'll talk to everybody. And then once they hear prison, they're like you're young, why are you going into prison?
Speaker 2:And most people in the community are for the program. They understand the importance of education, understand the importance of everyone being provided an opportunity and what a education a university in prison program would do for crime, violence and safety in Jamaica. Right, providing people with opportunity and providing people with another way, another route, something that they can work towards once they're released, keeping them busy, not just busy, but, you know, helping people to pursue their dreams and passions and not always having to. You know, helping people to pursue their dreams and passions and not always having to. You know, fight for survival is important and I think that the general community understands that and it was nice to see that. You know, once you get down to the human level and you talk to the community, you're like no people understand. More people understand than don't, and so that was really nice.
Speaker 1:Okay, and I like that too, because what's interesting for me is that you know, as we work in this area and we are trying to connect persons to the community, sometimes the community itself doesn't know how to help and how to support. Do you have any suggestions about you know, through your program or just through your, the wider work that you have done with incarcerated persons? Do you have any suggestions about how they can help support, facilitate reintegration and just a sense of belonging to the wider community?
Speaker 2:I have three very simple things that we all can do to kind of help to embrace people who have maybe struggled in the past or or maybe ostracized based off of certain decisions they might have made in the past. And that's one is using human centered language. So making sure that we're not othering people and saying you know that prisoner, right, that, that inmate, that you know M word it's, you know incarcerated person, formerly incarcerated person, not deported, deported, migrant. You know, humanize them and it means a lot to them and we'll see how those little things can affect how we, you know, interact with each other. That's one.
Speaker 2:Two, I would say volunteer Some volunteer work and experience. So Stand Up for Jamaica. I'm sure if you have certain skills and requirements or anything that you need, you can always volunteer with Stand Up for Jamaica. We're hoping in the next year that we're able to take on volunteers. So if you can, you can reach out to me to volunteer with our program as well. We always need more human capacity. And lastly, I will say if you are a business owner, if you are a shopkeeper, be open to hiring someone with a criminal conviction, right. So if they're qualified for the position, you know that they haven't had any negative interactions, antisocial behavior prior before, be open to hiring this person in your facility. We have to also lead by example, and we can't just say that people need employment and second chances and then not be willing to do it ourselves. So those are three ways that we can simply help out.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. And for those persons maybe universities you know staff members that are listening and may want to implement a program like this through their university are there any tips in terms of the process that they may need to consider when seeking to implement this program or plan for it?
Speaker 2:I think if you are willing to financially support the program, that will be great, like waiving tuition fees and things of that sort for students, that would be helpful.
Speaker 2:I think what's important to think about is the needs of the students, right? One of my favorite quotes is anything done for me without me is done against me. My favorite quotes is anything done for me without me is done against me. And so we have to think about the people who we are providing services to and what they might need. So not just trying to provide them with things that we think are best for them, but going into the facilities or the people we're trying to directly support and asking them what they need from us and then planning your curriculum around some of those things that might best help them once they're released, and also to center re-entry and reintegration planning in your educational programs. We can do a lot of education, but the reality is there is stigma around people who are formerly incarcerated and incarcerated and we have to think largely about you know the impact of the program on them once they're in the community think largely about you know the impact of the program on them once they're in the community.
Speaker 1:Thank you so, so much, chanel. I mean, you know, this is just such an important conversation and I hope that the viewers, the listeners, would be able to take some of this information and use it in their own settings For those persons who may want to contact you to find out more about the Prison to College pipeline, how can they find you?
Speaker 2:Oh, you can email me. So the best thing to do is email me All things. Uemona Prison Project or Prison to College Pipeline, jamaica. It's my first and last name. So Chanel H-A-N-E-L-L dot. You know, period B-A-I-L-E-Y at Fulbright, f-u-l-b-r-i-g-h-t, m-a-i-l dot org. You can email me there. I'll always respond. You can also reach out to the Institute of Caribbean Studies at UEMONA. I don't have their information on hand. Talk to Dr Dave Goss he's the director of the program or Georgia and Ms Georgia McClashan to the research assistant there, who's been working on the project from the beginning to end, and they'll be able to provide you with more information as well.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you so much, chanel. It was great having you on the show. And thank you so much, chanel, it was great having you on the show. And thank you so much, listeners, for joining with us today to hear more about the prison to college pipeline. Truly, we hope that this is your place for finding resources. Tomorrow Pod and subscribe to our YouTube channel, safer Tomorrow Podcast. We love having you with us and we want to hear more from you, so please share, comment, like, subscribe. Have a wonderful day.
